Many Park City and Summit County businesses rely heavily on immigrant labor but current federal policies make it difficult if not impossible for immigrants to work in the U.S. legally. Should elected officials toughen up on enforcement against illegal immigration or make it easier for immigrants to obtain work visas?
May 1 represents the first anniversary of last year's nationwide demonstations calling for immigration reform but not much has changed. In fact, due to Utah's booming economy and severe labor shortage, there are probably more illegal immigrants working here than ever before and, they are taking bigger risks to get here and stay here. Due to the new wall and a volunteer posse of vigilantes along the border, immigrants are using more dangerous routes to get into the States. Then, once they are here, many immigrant families live in fear of deportation.
There aren't any easy answers but it is apparent that the current system isn't serving anyone on either side of the border. If you could amend current immigration laws or create a whole new policy, what would it look like? Please post your comments below.
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79 comments:
We need new laws. New laws that offer immigrants opportunities to be accountable and law abiding as well as new laws that enforcement agencies will be willing and able to enforce .
We cannot deport all illegal aliens and we cannot continue to allow them to operate ourside of our laws.
ANSWER IS: BOARDERS NEED TO BE SECURED BETTER AND WE NEED NEW LAWS THAT ALLOW HONEST HARD WORKING ALIENS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE THEMSELVES WORTHY WITHOUT THE THREAT OF DEPORTATION.
Agreed- Secure the border.
In the mean time--
Tougher penalties for people that hire illegals. Double the penalty if they knowingly hire them. Including jail time.
When found and caught, detain. Let them go through the system. Yes, they shuold have the oppotunity to prove themselves. There should be certain criteria they must meet before they have the chance to prove themsleves. Like knowing the language, able to keep a job, ect.
IF they were really honest, they would be here legally in the first place. The "regular people wanting to go to work" I know are not criminals. Yes, I said criminals because that's what they are. They know it, you know it and I know it. Make up any stupid excuse you want, but it still reamins the same, they broke our laws, they're criminals subject to arrest and detainment.
And yes, the ski resorts, hotels and other businesses would survive without them.
Knowing the langauge? Does that include spelling?
1. Eliminate the law that says any child born in the US is automatically a US citizen, regardless if their parents are here illegally, tourists or whatever. No other country in the world has this law. It rewards people for coming here illegally and encourages dangerous behavior.
2. Toughen the border by far.
3. Deport illegal aliens when found. No "catch and release."
4. After 1,2, and 3 have been done, then ask for changing work visa programs.
illegal means illegal does anyone not get that. If you are not legal you need to be sent back
Perhaps we need to look at the profit margins of those companies claiming they need immigrants. Low wage, high profit...at the expense of the American worker? Just who did the maid, landscaping, kitchen jobs, construction, et al up to about 25 years ago? Americans. Why not now, artificially depressed wages from migrant worker addiction.
Corporate officers need jail time if Americans are negatively affected by illegal hiring practices.
Round them up ship them out. There would be more jobs and the crime rate would go down in Park City. We did not have these problems years ago before we were invaded. McPolin used to be the school you wanted your kids to go to, now its considered the low class school. We are paying for this folks. As long as we hire them they will keep coming and coming and soon we will be over run like california. Call me what ever you want I could care less I at least say it like it is where others think it but will not say it.
Deport Father Flynn and Father Busson as well. They both would prefer to be in an underdeveloped country where there is no freedom of religion or speech. They might as well go with those that they so diligently attempt to protect.
And all the criminals.You would think they would learn after they killed one of their own probably because of jealousy
If "illegals" had been deported, perhaps a legal good citizen of this community might be alive today. People are not concerned about illegal nannys. It is the criminals that they are justifed in being concerned about. Not against legal immigration, just illegal immigration. The "bleeders" at the Park Record and the so called leaders of the Catholic church in this town see it very different....The two priests in this town will exploit them like the Church has exploited and robbed the poor and underprivileged for centuries.
In "illegal alien", there is illegal.
An illegal alien broke the law, plain and simple. Get them kicked out. Do not encourage them to stay , have American children, look forward to amnesties. etc. If you borke the alw, you do not ahve a right to my pity. Come back legally , then we will talk...
And yes I am a LEGAL alien (notice the difference ?) , that was naturralized, and proud of it.
When an illegal is caught, ship them out. Not just the person, the whole family. That way no one can can say that the kids are freaking out because daddy isn't there.
I'd like to see a raid twice a month. Just for kicks. Get the people that hire them too. They could fence off a few hundred acres in the west desert around the toxic dump sites and let them wait there until a hearing comes up.
The man said his wife is scared to go to WalMart. Hell, I am too. But for different reasons. Our people are living in fear...GOOD...They should be. But then again if they would have came here legally, they wouldn't be living in fear.
I have zero tolerance for illegals.Send them back. They've already shown that they have no respect for our laws.
Go through the system, come here legally and quit making us celebrate your holidays. It's just another excuse to get drunk. Like they need one on the first place.
Sheesh!
This blog is venomous.
While I agree that illegal immigration needs to be stopped, the tone of these posts is over the top and offensive.
I can only say that if I lived in Mexico under the conditions that most live in I can guarantee you that I would do everything I could to make a better life for my family. I am not sure if I would come over illegally but I am sure I would consider it, depending on my situation.
The question still remains...why should the United States incur the burden from Mexico based on that country's inbred corruption? You are either poor or wealthy in Mexico. What surprises me is the energy illegals expend in the US protesting our immigration laws, when they should be in Mexico demanding from their OWN GOVERNMENT inalienable rights and take appropriate action to get those rights...up to and including overthrowing their government and the drug lords that ravage Mexico.
Of course Yapias, Bunson, et al are too cowardly to look at the source problem of illegal immigration to the US.
What is venomous, is illegal and uncontrolled immigration.
I made $5/hour flipping hamburgers in 1980. Adjusted for CPI that is $12/hour today. Those jobs don't make $12/hour today. They make $8 or so. What is different? The supply of cheap labor. We have gotten used to and addicted to cheap labor where we think that $12/hour is a lot. When in fact it is the same wage that was paid in 1980. So all of those jobs pay 30% less today adjusted for CPI than they did in 1980. So it is wrong to say that employers can't find American's to do those jobs. They can't find Americans to do those jobs for 30% less than 27 years ago.
Let's annex Mexico! I think it's the best answer-- Think about it! The Mexicans get to be Americans... we get access to some of the best beaches in the world, we can clean up the corruption that is forcing people to seek the U.S. as a refuge.
It's a win/win situation. Of course we'd have to spend billions of dollars on services to the Mexican people that we absorb into our country, but is that so much different than what happens now? How much aid is the U.S. government already sending to Mexico? Obviously they can't solve their own problems, so let Uncle Sam get down there an do it for them.
I'm all for an annex!!
Yeah baby, I too am all for the annex idea. Cinco de Mayo every week end!
The annex idea is genius!
Park City is a sanctuary city. What else would you call it if the the chief of police gives the number one illegal alien advocate carte blanche to his office and personnel, dictates policy for the police, and by the way...is dating her? Seems to be a conflict of interest, but probably be the norm for the San Francisco of Utah.
ROUND THEM UP and HAUL THEM BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY! Park City Police Department needs to toughen up and get them out of the city. Too many Mexi drug dealers in Park City. They are the ones supplying the drugs in our area and causing too much crime.
Its a shame that thousands of valiant young men and women are dying in Iraq to protect this country from "terror," and the politicians decide to open the borders to over 12 million illegals (none of whom could be terrorists, or criminals, no, no, no) so they can get the latino vote. Soon there won't be much homeland worth securing. Canada is starting to look better and better, at least they speak english there.
Bush, Kennedy has just sold us out. When this latest bill passes, the borders are going to be over run with people wanting to get in so they can stay.
I always knew Bush and Killer Kennedy were morons, we're about to find out how many other idiots think this is a "good step" in immigration reform.
Write your congressman (or woman) and let them know that Amnesty (with or without a fine, it's still amnesty) didn't work when Regan did it, what makes them think it's going to work now?
All illegals should be sent back to where they came from...illegal is just that, illegal. I'm sick of paying for ILLEGALS coming to my country, my town, and sapping MY taxes!
Try doing the work the 'illegals' are doing for the pay they are receiving. You won't do it! They're doing the work that [you] and I choose not to do. If all those that are in Park City illegally were to leave, then we would all be in trouble. And they are paying taxes. Even if they are using a fake social security number, taxes are being withheld, period. The old saying - no taxation without representation. Well, if they are being taxed, don't they have the right to be represented??! I would love to see all the immigrant workers protest on a busy weekend in Park City, just to show to everyone what would happen if [they] were to leave.
This makes me totally sick! It reminds me of the reason I left Mississippi and the South in general. The racism in Utah runs just as deep as it does down in Hickville Mississippi. The comments sound as if they are coming from drain bramaged, paranoid conspiracy theorist.
I will stand behind anyone, any day, who is trying to make a better life for themselves and their family.
Try doing the work the 'illegals' are doing for the pay they are receiving. You won't do it! They're doing the work that [you] and I choose not to do. If all those that are in Park City illegally were to leave, then we would all be in trouble. And they are paying taxes. Even if they are using a fake social security number, taxes are being withheld, period. The old saying - no taxation without representation. Well, if they are being taxed, don't they have the right to be represented??! I would love to see all the immigrant workers protest on a busy weekend in Park City, just to show to everyone what would happen if [they] were to leave.
This makes me totally sick! It reminds me of the reason I left Mississippi and the South in general. The racism in Utah runs just as deep as it does down in Hickville Mississippi. The comments sound as if they are coming from drain bramaged, paranoid conspiracy theorist.
I will stand behind anyone, any day, who is trying to make a better life for themselves and their family.
I see all the Anonymous bloggers - have some heart and post your name. It would be nice to know the wolves dressed in sheeps clothing.
Daxton, or whoever you are, prior to the SAW act of 1986, who did the landscaping, carpentry, maid, kitchen work, etc of Park City? Americans! Until people, with the likes of you, started employing illegal aliens, depressing the wages to the point Americans could no longer afford to do those jobs. How do illegals make it? By taking housing developed for low income US Citizens of Park City and putting 3-4 illegal alien families in each unit...Aspen Villas, Todd Hollow, etc. Let the aliens protest and hopefully there will be a bus near by to haul them and their subversive supporters away.
First of all "the", I haven't read one word of racism on here. I don't know why you infer it to be racist to insist that our our laws be respected and our borders secure. That's the same sort of thinking that calls someone racist for believing in equality in job hiring rather than using racial preferences hiring. In actuality the latter is racist and the former is race-neutral.
Actually, you do raise a very good
point of saying that people in the US don't want to work for those wages. You are correct, we don't want to work for those wages. Those wages are lower today for the same jobs than when I did them 40 years ago. I did wash dishes and food prep and other jobs that Americans don't want to do today. The difference is those jobs pay less today than 40 years ago. If you take what I made in 1970 and adjust it for CPI that was a $15/hour job in todays dollars. They pay maybe $8-10/hour now. So the same job pays 33% less than 40 years ago. Why do they pay less? The answer is the huge supply of 12 million people willing to do it. Their existence here has made those jobs pay less and, yes, you are right, pay a wage less than Americans are willing to accept.
What would Park City look like without all of them here to work for those wages? The answer is that wages would be much higher, and the town would be a lot smaller. Sounds like the Park City I loved 40 years ago. But if you want low paying jobs and overcrowding and sprawl, then by all means open the borders.
Keep the illegals! Get rid of the priests!
Well, I DO work alongside immigrants, and I am quite sure they are not all documented. I understand the want and desire to make their lives better, fine. Many of those people are nice people, but, it does not give them the right to come here illegally in order to make their lives better. Yes, many do contribute to our tax system, but, our tax system has taken on many more burdens BECAUSE of them!
Identity theft is a reality of illegal immigrant trafficking, it's part of the package deal of these people crossing our borders.
I am not racist, "the", I am only saying that our laws need to be abided by.
"I will stand behind anyone, any day, who is trying to make a better life for themselves and their family."
I am curious, does this support extend to American Citizens who are working the same jobs as Illegal Immigrants?
Illegal immigrants are causing the income of lower income workers to stagnate and retract. This has been detrimental to the upward mobility of low income American Citizens.
Your post gave me the impression that you are seeing this as a one sided issue, the side of the illegal immigrant, without considering the impact they are having on American Citizens.
And yes, I grew up washing dishes, landscaping, delivering pizza. I put myself through college doing these jobs. Americans are willing to do the work, don't by into the BS that we will not.
Also, I have been to Mississippi. Utah is no Mississippi. If Mississippi is better perhaps you should return.
"Due to the new wall and a volunteer posse of vigilantes along the border, immigrants are using more dangerous routes to get into the States."
Oh, you mean the 700-mile fence that Congress authorized last year? A grand total of two miles have been constructed thus far. If anyone has chosen to use a more dangerous route to get into the United States it's certainly not because they have to.
I still say an annex is the best option. Isn't there some oil in Mexico somewhere? Maybe we should do some test drilling...
Don't you get it? Mexico has annexed the US.
The annex idea is still a good one. Send the priests to Venzuela!
Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to people why today's American is not willing to accept this new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to the United States, people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be
documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and
kiss the ground. They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning
English a primary rule in their new American households and some
even changed their names to blend in with their new home.
They had waved good bye to their birthplace to give their children
a new life and did everything in their power to help their children
assimilate into one culture
Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labor
laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and craftmanship they had brought with them to trade for a future of
prosperity. Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. My father fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany, Italy, France and Japan. None of these 1st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan. They were defending the United States of America as one people. When we liberated France, no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the Irish American. The people of France saw
only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one
country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one
red, white and blue bowl.
And here we are in 2006 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by
playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the
entitlement card and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother
country. That's not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900's deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags.
Nan, time for a new topic!
Would you people get real? This town was founded on immigrants-- miners who were Chinese, Irish, Polish etc. I defy any one of you venomous nut cases to tell me that you do not have immigrant (legal or illegal) ancestory in your lineage. For hell's sake, there is no true pure American. That is the beauty of the melting pot. Today, it is immigrants from Latin American trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. Tell me why that is so different from what the Irish, Germans, Chinese, Italians, etc. did in the last 100 years. Where are the so-called Americans who are lining up to do the jobs that these immigrants want? Just exactly who would clean your hotels, staff your restaurants, take your fast-food orders, and do the labor we all take for granted? Stop your moaning! Let them in and give them legal status so they can drive legally and responsibly and pay taxes. Then we can start talking about fair labor practices for all. These are not the terrorists you are looking for. Putting up a damn wall is such a ridiculous testostorone answer. As if that would work?! Puhleese. Let's get real. These immigrants, like our ancestors, are here and are part of the culture and fabric of this town. Now let's figure out a way to make them responsible citizens who can pay their way. Stop the biggotry and the holier than thou attitudes. And while you are at it, take some time to learn your own history.
Get real you "bleeding heart." What don't you understand about the word illegal. It is shameful that you bleeders throw up the word bigotry everytime this issue comes up.
Go back to reporting, drawing cartoons, or writing columns for the Park Record!
The 9:38 PM poster asks several questions. So I will answer them for him/her.
Would you people get real? Yes. I will.
Tell me why that is so different from what the Irish, Germans, Chinese, Italians, etc. did in the last 100 years. The difference is legal vs. illegal.
Where are the so-called Americans who are lining up to do the jobs that these immigrants want? The wages of those jobs pay less today than 30 years ago beacause of the volume of illegal immigrants.
Just exactly who would clean your hotels, staff your restaurants, take your fast-food orders, and do the labor we all take for granted? We would, for a lot more money and benefits. And if Park City had fewer St. Regises and Montages, I think we would survive.
You ask us to learn our history. I would suggest you learn your economics. Greater supply of labor lowers wages and benefits. That is a mathematical fact. What you are in favor of guarantees lower wages and benefits for Americans and the legal immigrants.
And by the way, I am a legal immigrant. So I am not against immigration, just against illegal immigration. And stop calling anyone who disagrees with you a nut case and a bigot.
"The blacks and the Asian's can stay, but we don't want the Irish!"
(Paraphrased)
The Indians didn't control immigration and look what happened to them.
Hey, just because the Indians started out in Manhattan and ended up defending Santa Monica does not mean that they were not good fighters!
Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house)."
According to protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must add me to your family's insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide other benefits to me and to my family (my husband will do your yard work because he too is hard-working and honest (except for that breaking-in part).
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there.
It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest, um, except for well, you know.
And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being an anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my language so you can communicate with me.
Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Tighten up the laws !
We need to show more sympathy for these people. They travel miles in the heat, they risk their lives crossing a border, they don't get paid enough wages, they do jobs that others won't do or are afraid to do, they live in crowded conditions among a people who speak a different language, they rarely see their families, and they face adversity all day every day.
I'm not talking about illegal Mexicans, I'm talking about our troops.
Doesn't it seem strange that Democrats are willing to lavish all kinds of social benefits on illegals, but don't support our troops and threaten to defund them?
Amen to the last blogger. Democrats suffer from that mental disease know as liberalism. They want to save whales and trees yet are willing to kill unborn children in the third trimester of a pregnancy. The logic of this escapes rational thinking.
They are a party run by a rapist (Bill Clinton), a murderer( Ted Kennedy), and a former klansman(Robert Byrd). While some are intersesting and creative poeple, why would anyone in their right mind want to be friends with these folks!
This newspaper is a joke. What other newspaper in the world would dedicate space on the front page to graffiti.
The reason they ran with the graffiti is because there was no moose walking down main street. Small town, small town news bro!
Why does the City let business that will need to employ illegals build or expand here? Why is immigration law not part of the planning process? Everything else certainly is!
With the graffiti it wasn't the fact that they reported it, it was the fact they actually tried to analyze what the artist was trying to say, legitimizing the graffiti. It doesn't have anything to do with the size of the town, it has to do with the fact that they looked at it as a valid form of expression and put it on the front page.
Only liberals could consider graffiti art.
"Illegal, or unlawful,
is used to describe something that is prohibited or not authorized by law or, more generally, by rules specific to a particular situation .
hypocrisy
In an act of hypocrisy the aim is to condemn another person or people, not to condemn an act. To preach against an act of which one is oneself guilty does not in itself constitute hypocrisy, even if one takes efforts to conceal one's behaviour. It becomes hypocrisy when it involves verbal attacks or demands of punishment against perpetrators of the act that one practices oneself
Bigot,
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own."
That means , pick any of this words to define your attitude towards the immigration topic if you regurarly buy products or services from local shops and condemn immigrants workers.Let's face it, legal immigrants are not cooking,cleaning,bussing for you.
If we like to use the word illegal let's put it this way.
There are illegal aliens , illegal employers and illegal consumers.
There are people here who would take the jobs they are involved with. All we have to do is raise the pay a small amount and they would come running. Isn't that cheaper than all the expense one has to go through to keep immigrants here? They cannot be here and fill our schools and churches and bring the entire family fill up our hospitals not pay for all the resourses they get and for free! They have to speak our language obey our existing laws. etc. Become a citizen! Then they can come. Look at what is happening to our town! Stop it now!
Lat comment I could not agree more. Thing is if you say it other than here you are a racist. Well lets think back 10 years ago did we have gangs here? Nope all the cheap housing in town brought that here. Its not the white people commiting the crimes, the young little gang bangers want to let us all know they are from Mexico, well if it is so great there I will buy all of them a bus ticket back so they can enjoy wonderful mexico
Park City employers now will have to be certain they are not hiring "illegal aliens" or they face heavy fines. It is a fantasy to belive that the U.S. will ever be able to seal off the border.
If we have to go through all of the steps to become citizens why should "illegals" become citizens...I say NO.
Get real, no one wants to wash dishes, be a maid or pick peaches we need a source of cheap labor or our economy doesn't work. No one is taking jobs away from anyone. Simple solution, work permits so we know who is here. Knock the racism crap off. These are hard working good people.
Ready for this????
"Food shortages, rising prices, evictions and foreclosures, layoffs, failed businesses, reduced school funding and a rising crime rate are just some of the impacts critics say could result from new procedures taking effect in mid-September."
Hey, why doesn't the US just invade Mexico and fix everything, just like Iraq, eh? And, the US could make Mexico another state and then problem solved, right?
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." Anyone remember these lines? (They are carved into the base of the Statue of Liberty.) Why can't we make room for good people to come here? We have so much, can't we share?
All we need to do is reform a few laws... bring them in as guest workers (like they do in Switzerland), and if they want to stay, have shown stable employement, no welfare payments and/or no legal problems, let them stay.
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses ..."
That's just a poem...
It's time to let go of immigration nostalgia and think about what kind of country we want for our grandchildren and great-grandchildren...
The subject of this Blog seems to have been lost. The original question was: If you could amend current immigration laws or create a whole new policy, what would it look like?
As a starting point, can we be clear about what current laws are and are not? Comments posted to date indicate an abysmal ignorance on the subject. The right to citizenship based on birth within the U.S. (jus soli) is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution (Fourteenth Amendment, ratified in 1868), not by some minor law that can be rewritten in response to anti-immigration sentiment. And the U.S. is hardly the only country to grant citizenship based on jus soli: in fact, Mexico and Canada allow citizenship on the same basis.
What could be more easily changed, however, is the legal basis for working in this country. Currently, resident status that confers the right to work (without providing a track to citizenship) is very restricted and difficult to obtain, generally limited to individuals with special skills, and requires sponsorship of the entity offering employment to the alien. If the "work visa" program were expanded to include all classes of workers, laborers from Mexico and elsewhere could legally work - and pay income and Social Security taxes, get driver licenses, purchase health insurance, etc. - without having the right to citizenship or even permanent residency. For those whose work is seasonal, the work permit could also be seasonal, allowing the workers to remain during the months of work and to return to their home countries for the rest of the year, without fear of being unable to return for the next season's work.
Such a program is clearly workable; similar programs have operated successfully for years in other countries that need "guest workers." What I am hearing in many of these Blog entries, however, is that some people don't want Mexicans here at all. While their comments may start by decrying illegality, many quickly descend to the level of bigotry ("gang bangers", "another excuse to get drunk. Like they need one on the first place.", etc., etc.) It appears that the real message of these Blogs is not a plea to uphold our laws but rather an expression of hostility toward people whose “crime” is their desire to work.
Laws do not always prescribe the correct, or even the sensible, solution to a problem. By making the hiring of non-residents a criminal offense, the law makes criminals of honest people. If we de-criminalize the hiring of aliens, and instead regulate the conditions of their employment and residency status, we will have a win-win situation; the only losers will be those who use the presence of "illegals" as an excuse for their own inability to succeed in a state with one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation.
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